Falling Skyward 1 (Episode 5)

Part 1 of a conversation between Steve Andrews and Clark Soriano on climbing and living with cancer. Take each hold as it comes. Focus on the present. Be humble. Learn to live with uncertainty.

Resources: Check out Steve Andrew's podcast: Bad Beta
Narration by Julian Noursi
Produced by Clark Soriano and Julian Noursi.
Artwork by Clark Soriano.
Post-Production by Cozmic Cat
Original music by Cozmic Cat

Thank you Michelle Fanzo (for mentoring) and my darling wife.

Transcript

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FALLING SKYWARDS 1

TRANSCRIPT

Clark Soriano: (00:00)

Climbing. 

CLIMBING SOUNDS

Clark Soriano

Ready to Fall

FALLING SOUNDS

Clark Soriano:

Nice Catch. 

Steve Andrews:

Thanks

Clark Soriano:

Oh God. To get more confidence, you have to fall

 Steve Andrews (00:14):

Yeah. You have to, you know. You’ve got to venture into the unknown,

INTRO MUSIC

Julian Noursi (00:19):

Welcome to episode five:  Falling Skywards -- a conversation about rock climbing and living with cancer. 

• Clark has been a rock climber for 12 years, climbing outdoors in places like the Gunks mountains of New York state. 
• Steve Andrews, aCanadian professional climbing guide, introduce Clark to Ontario's climbing areas like the Metcalf Rock

CLIMBING SOUNDS

Clark Soriano (01:06):

Before we listen to episode five, here are some tips for the non-climber. One, climbing routes are designated by graded numbers that rate difficulty. Two, there are two types of climbing.  In traditional climbing or trad climbing, the climber places tools into the rock, called protection that hold the safety rope. These tools are taken out, as climbers make their way along the rock face.  In sport climbing, that protection is embedded permanently into the rock face and denote the route.

Julian Noursi (01:51):

Let's begin this episode with their recollection of their first climb or more accurately, their first fall.

Steve Andrews (01:58):

So like the earliest I remember about climbing together is at Metcalf. I think I put you on some very like short cracks at what's called the Guide Wall

Clark Soriano:

Yeah. I remember that, too.

Steve Andrews:

But they're very slippery. They get a lot of traffic and so they're very polished. Something that I thought looked, you know, appropriate, but still challenging. And you were used to climbing in the Gunks where the rock was a little more solid

Clark Soriano:
That’s right.

Steve Andrews

 And, you put a little cam in behind a block, a moving block.  And you fell and the piece popped and fell right into me. And we both tumbled down the hill

Clark Soriano:

I feel on top of you. God 

Steve Andrews:

And I thought, “Oh man, like, that's it. He's not going to want to climb with me anymore.” 

Clark Soriano (03:00):

Yeah. But I, I enjoyed that day and you know – it was a really good lesson for me. Routes everywhere are so different. And what is 5.5 at the Gunks or 5.7 or 5.9 at the Gunks is different from 5.7, 5.5 and 5.9 in in Ontario. And even within Ontario. No I've given up on grades.

Steve Andrews (03:18):

Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Even at two different areas that might be five minutes from each other, but were developed at different times. And so, or mainly developed at different times. And so kind of have a, a bit of a, a legacy of grades feeling hard or soft and yeah, they almost don't translate,

Clark Soriano (03:43):

Actually, this is good that we're discussing this because it brings me to the topic that I really liked to discuss with you. I've been living with cancer for quite some time. Now I live with two cancers, a stage four prostate and stage two sarcoma. I wanted to hear and learn about what can cancer survivors learn from climbers. And what can climbers learn from cancer survivors, from people living with cancer? 

One of the things that cancer has taught me is to take each day as it comes, you know, you learn from other people, but you don't live according to their expectations. It's like climbing a route just because you're done a 5.7 at the Gunks, easily doesn't mean that the 5.7 in Metcalfe or inThe Swamp is the same.

Steve Andrews (04:38):

Yes. Yeah. Or even that you’re the same on different days.

Clark Soriano (04:43):

What do you mean? Yeah. What do you mean?

Steve Andrews (04:44):

And I mean, maybe this is probably going towards your point is that you can climb a certain grade one day and you know, maybe that's just when your body was feeling fantastic and you might have it in your head that you can then jump on anything at that grade and be able to put it down.

 And it could be the case that, yeah, the climate's hard for the grade or the climb is a different style than you're used to. And so feels harder or something that is not your strength and still feels harder. Or it could be the case that you didn't get enough sleep or you ate some trash Tim Horton's on the way up or something like that. And and you're not feeling a hundred percent. 

The grades indicate very little really. And instead I think this is kind of your point that you have to really pay attention to and be honest with how you're feeling and what shape the rock is in and what the conditions are like and your mental state, your physical state, all that.

Clark Soriano (05:43):

It's all about focusing on one hold at the time. My joy is actually coming from hold after hold; move after move.  You know, it's like they're solving problems and you're making those breakthroughs.

Last week was such a wonderful climb for me. You know, I saw, we saw a route.  Then I said, okay, I'll climb it. It was so damn hard. Then I, you know, at a certain point in the middle, I said, this is a sports fire, but I can't reach the next hold. And then I decided to plug in some gear and I started doing aid climbing. And then I started doing trad climbing and then moved back to sports. 

Normally, you know, if you speak to the traditional climber, let’s say the purist,: “You should only do trad climbing. You only do one or the other.”

Steve Andrews:

Yes. Its one or the other. 

Clark Soriano

But just combining this (different kinds of climbing) and defying a stereotype of what it's like to be a good climber, makes climbing so much more enjoyable. 

And then I discovered after the climb and we talked to someone at the base that I had actually climbed 10C or a 10B for the first time. I led a 10c or 10b for the first time.

Steve Andrews:

Your hardest lead

Clark Soriano:

 Yes. Yes. That was so exciting being just in the zone. 

Steve Andrews (07:05):

Yeah, absolutely. I really enjoyed that. Where, you know, you chose to climb that not based on a recommendation in a book or that you thought it was a certain grade, and so yeah, you would  likely be able to do it. 

You chose it really just because you thought it looked fun to climb. And then just got on it. And it got hard and you just kept going and you used all your knowledge and your skill and persevered. I think, like you said, that's probably the most enjoyable way to do it. 

Steve Andrews:

What a rock climber can learn from somebody living with cancer is humility. And that approaching climbs with humility is a good strategy to stay safe. 

First of all, certainly like as a young climber getting in, when you start getting into climbing, especially if you're not currently living with cancer, but as you start getting into climbing, its very easy to love it because you are constantly progressing. And so you're constantly getting better and better and better. And I I see that there's a point where eventually you can't get better or I mean, you might plateau in your performance and suddenly life happens and you don't have as much time to train or, or to spend climbing as you'd like. And so, and when you go to re-approach climbing, you're suddenly not as good as you were not as strong as you were, not as high up on the hierarchy at the crag. You're not climbing the cool climbs that impress everybody. And so that's like kind of the test is, do you really enjoy the process or did you enjoy being good at something? And not really, maybe not or maybe it's now you have to learn how to enjoy the process of getting better again. And I found that it was really true when we started climbing because you were, you were coming off, I think you were coming up probably a high for yourself in terms of like how much you had done at the Gunks

Steve Andrews (09:23):

You were climbing, pushing into your, you know, your hardest grades at the Gunk. And when we started, you know, like that time where, where we took that town ball, you were probably a little bit cocky. 

Clark Soriano:

Yes

Steve Andrews:

And then as you were going through your treatment, your strength went down and I'm sure your emotional and mental ability to deal with stress went down, as well. And so, we just, all we ended up doing easier things, doing a little bit less per day, but still going out and having a great time. And yeah, you never seem to lose your psych. And I think if it was because you went in humble and without the ego of “Oh, I should have been able to do this. A year ago, I could do this. Now I can’t. This sucks. Woe is me.” It's easy to get into that mindset. And then you're totally setting yourself up for a non-enjoyable day

Clark Soriano (10:30):

That’s very Insightful because a lot of times we get into this a rut where we're climbing to, to impress others or to meet an image of yourself that is not real. 

Steve Andrews:

Yeah

Clark Soriano:

And climbing becomes more fun and authentic. And you can challenge yourself more to do better if you're able to embrace that self-image and just move on.  And not allow yourself to be obsessed or stuck at that past self-image. Because all self-images are the past.

Clark Soriano (11:12):

And it's so important to focus on what your mind, body and heart is like right now. 

Steve Andrews.

Yes. Yes. The present.

Clark Soriano:

The present and what is being revealed to you. And when you focus on that, climbing becomes more enjoyable and wild. And the skills that you develop over the years are given the space to express themselves.

Steve Andrews (11:38):

Yeah. And if you keep your eyes open, you'll find new ways to use those skills like you did by putting  the trad gear on that sport route. 

Clark Soriano (11:56):

If you focus on the present, you create the space for your mind to discover those little gems. Those little gems that are important for growth. In climbing:  that little toe-hold or that little secret pocket, or that secret under-cling that you need to use.

Steve Andrews (12:18):

And it's that secret pocket and under-cling, if you're in the wrong head space on that wall, they don't exist. They're not there. The wall is completely blank and it's totally impossible. And you're never going to do it. And you just quit and go home. And it's too hot anyway and the bugs are bad. But yeah, if you allow yourself to be okay with the discomfort and the challenge and the stress, and you open your mind up to possibilities, suddenly those things appear. It's almost like magic.

Clark Soriano (12:52):

Yeah. That is great. That is great. One of the things that I've learned in my own journey through cancer, is that if you focus too much on what your life was like in the past, you don't give your mind a space to think about what is precious and what is enjoyable and what is challenging in the present. Prostrate cancer and sarcoma affects certain body parts. So basically there are certain body parts and organs that are no longer working. Number two, the impact of cancer on me was that I could no longer do some of the work -elated things that I used to do. I used to travel a lot

Steve Andrews (13:38):

Yeah.

Clark Soriano (13:40):

In my sad moments, in my moments where I feel really depressed, I'm looking at the past, I'm asking myself, “why can't I do this anymore?”

But in other times, when I am able to, you know, just allow these thoughts to sweep over me, but not dwelling in it. And then I realized that there are many things that I am doing, today, that I could not even do before. Like my relationship with my wife is  more precious and we're much more closer. And we found new ways to convey how much, how important we are to each other that we've never even been able to do before. And there are things like this podcast, or even what I can do in climbing right now  --are are some of the things that I couldn't  do before.

The past is important, but don't dwell on it. Give yourself the space to think about what the present is offering you.

Climbing is like that for me. Saying, ”I used to climb this way. I used to climb at this grade.”  gets in the way of discovering the beauty of a route and the beauty of your body adjusting and embracing what the route and the rock has to offer. 

Steve Andrews:

I would do a climb that was very challenging. And then I'd be afraid to get on it again, because I was afraid I would perform poorly on it. 

You know? It's like, yeah, like, how is that helpful? You know, it's helpful to the ego. Yeah, that's right. It's helpful to the ego

Julian Noursi (15:24):

Take each day or hold, as it comes, learn from others. But don't live according to their expectations. Focus on what is in front of you. Focus on the present. The past is done. The future is yet to come. Focusing too much on the past or the future intrudes on the space to learn and enjoy life. 

Humility is essential. Invest less time on impressing others or on living up to an image of yourself. All self-images are about the past. Focus instead on the present and what is being revealed to you? Focus on the present to discover those little gems that are essential for growth. Learn to live with uncertainty

Clark Soriano (16:15):

In the climbing community, a fall is also called “a whipper” I'd like to close this episode with a poem that I wrote to commemorate one of my first “whippers” while learning how to climb trad.  This song is inspired by my New York climbing buddy Mark Folsom, who has a really interesting habit of belaying me with off-color jokes and the forgotten songs of the seventies and eighties.

Clark Soriano (16:47):

WITH MUSIC FROM THE SEVENTIES

When its time to send a 9

You must whip it

You will never learn that line

You must whip it

Really No one gets ahead

You must whip it

Now whip it

Pinch that hold

Mind your feet

Try to rest

Hand-jamb

Lay-back

Feel the thrill

Its not to late

Whip it good

When that sequence comes along

You must whip it

Just before you lose your breathe

You must whip it

When the sequence used is wrong

You must whip it

Now whip it

Take that fall

Fall to learn

Think straight

Climb to learn

Move ahead

Try to breathe

Its not to late

Whip it good

OUTRO MUSIC
 
 

Julian Noursi:

We hope you like part one of this episode on climbing and living with cancer. Tune into episode six - part two of this insightful conversation between Clark and Steve.